Comments on: Uselessness of University http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/ I don't know if the word Freeminding exists. Anyway it's what I'll do: just let my mind be free... Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:00:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jeremy Higgs http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6212 Jeremy Higgs Tue, 21 Feb 2006 02:25:45 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6212 You could argue that a lot of what is done at University is boring, but I think it can put into perspective what you enjoy and what you don't. I started a Business IT course at uni three years ago (mix of programming, project management and IT management), with the intention of steering away from programming, because I didn't want to do that in my career. However, we were "forced" to do programming subjects in the first year or two, and I now thoroughly enjoy programming. Had I not been "forced" to do those subjects, I wouldn't be in the position I'm in today. I guess there's a balance that needs to be reached, though. If all you're doing is subjects you're not interested in, then that's not constructive. But if it's a subject that's challenging and changes your perspective on things, then it's not so bad. ;) You could argue that a lot of what is done at University is boring, but I think it can put into perspective what you enjoy and what you don’t.

I started a Business IT course at uni three years ago (mix of programming, project management and IT management), with the intention of steering away from programming, because I didn’t want to do that in my career. However, we were “forced” to do programming subjects in the first year or two, and I now thoroughly enjoy programming. Had I not been “forced” to do those subjects, I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in today.

I guess there’s a balance that needs to be reached, though. If all you’re doing is subjects you’re not interested in, then that’s not constructive. But if it’s a subject that’s challenging and changes your perspective on things, then it’s not so bad. ;)

]]> By: Michele http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6210 Michele Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:42:33 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6210 It should be a compromise. Not too much, but at least something. Hehe...and those wannabe-engineers who can't code a line without asking their teammates/neighbours are the worse: I mean, Computer Engineers are supposed to know how to code and solve problems autonomously. Instead, knowing how to play fucking computer games is not mandatory! ;) And when I can, I prefer to work solo if I can't choose my teammates. It should be a compromise. Not too much, but at least something.

Hehe…and those wannabe-engineers who can’t code a line without asking their teammates/neighbours are the worse: I mean, Computer Engineers are supposed to know how to code and solve problems autonomously. Instead, knowing how to play fucking computer games is not mandatory! ;)
And when I can, I prefer to work solo if I can’t choose my teammates.

]]> By: Vincent http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6209 Vincent Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:29:35 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6209 It may be stupid not to work on projects but in Polytechnique in Montréal they put too much importance on large and complex projects which finally have the opposite effect they are supposed to create. The projects are so complex, so not-well explained, the requirements are changing weekly to accomodate stupid students who can't program even after 3 years of courses. Worst of all, it has to be done in teams so you spend 1 hour explaining to that "partner" what is the difference between a named pipe and an anonymous pipe, 30 minutes programming with someone overlooking what you are doing and 1 hour trying to schedule the next meeting. Anyway, that's the new fashion here in Quebec: teamwork...what about you? It may be stupid not to work on projects but in Polytechnique in Montréal they put too much importance on large and complex projects which finally have the opposite effect they are supposed to create. The projects are so complex, so not-well explained, the requirements are changing weekly to accomodate stupid students who can’t program even after 3 years of courses. Worst of all, it has to be done in teams so you spend 1 hour explaining to that “partner” what is the difference between a named pipe and an anonymous pipe, 30 minutes programming with someone overlooking what you are doing and 1 hour trying to schedule the next meeting. Anyway, that’s the new fashion here in Quebec: teamwork…what about you?

]]> By: Michele http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6208 Michele Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:11:04 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6208 I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one feeling this way. :) *@ ilisu:* I can understand your point, unfortunately it doesn't apply to me. Why? Because we haven't got projects to do, which is probably one of the worst things. As you said, if you have a project to work on, you're stimulated to research and learn thing you'd probably never get in touch with otherwise. It's probably a widespread problem in Italian University. I think the only ones that have to work on projects are Architecture and Design students. Isn't it stupid? I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one feeling this way. :)

@ ilisu: I can understand your point, unfortunately it doesn’t apply to me. Why? Because we haven’t got projects to do, which is probably one of the worst things.

As you said, if you have a project to work on, you’re stimulated to research and learn thing you’d probably never get in touch with otherwise.

It’s probably a widespread problem in Italian University. I think the only ones that have to work on projects are Architecture and Design students. Isn’t it stupid?

]]> By: Andre http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6200 Andre Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:14:25 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6200 I couldn't agree more with what you just said. I study Computer Engineering too, and all the computer things I can do (such as web design, or programming), I've learned through home-studying. Computer Engineering should be more specifically focused on computer problems; I'm still wondering why I had to do a Energetic Systems class, as I don't feel like thermodynamics are much of a computer thing, uh? But the list could go on and on. Actually, I think that the only useful classes I've attended where Databases I, Programming I and II and, perhaps, Operative Systems I and the Computer Networks one. If we want to add the two courses of Computer Architecture, we obtain a poor total of only 7 exams computer-related :-/ That pretty much sucks. The rest, it's just a mere sequence of exams you tend to forget after you've passed them. I couldn’t agree more with what you just said.
I study Computer Engineering too, and all the computer things I can do (such as web design, or programming), I’ve learned through home-studying.

Computer Engineering should be more specifically focused on computer problems; I’m still wondering why I had to do a Energetic Systems class, as I don’t feel like thermodynamics are much of a computer thing, uh?

But the list could go on and on.

Actually, I think that the only useful classes I’ve attended where Databases I, Programming I and II and, perhaps, Operative Systems I and the Computer Networks one. If we want to add the two courses of Computer Architecture, we obtain a poor total of only 7 exams computer-related :-/ That pretty much sucks.

The rest, it’s just a mere sequence of exams you tend to forget after you’ve passed them.

]]> By: Vincent http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6197 Vincent Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:11:48 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6197 I am sorry for the long comment, I have to release pressure growing inside me once in a while. I am sorry for the long comment, I have to release pressure growing inside me once in a while.

]]> By: Vincent http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6196 Vincent Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:10:45 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6196 I can only agree with you. I've once heard: "If you can't do, teach!" The problem with what we learn in University is that its too theoric and sometime not so relevent. Why the hell do I know how the car frequency it takes to break a bridge? Oh yes, I am studying engineering. Whenever you ask any teacher why do we only learn theoric things, they answer: "Of course, studying Engineering is about learning a method to solve problems and apply it to your field of study." Bullshit...let's see what happen after school : I have a project that has to be done. Ok, what did I learn in school: C++, C++ and yes Linux libraries. I think the best way to do my web application would be to write a CGI plugin, heavily tied to my OS. I will then learn about modern languages such as PHP and say, wow this is crap, you got no pointers and look...it's not strongly typed. I just came out of a Database course. I think its the first course in University that is really applied. Applied to what? Oracle. So we are learning every detail of Oracle (Foreign Keys, Views, Triggers, Constraints, anything that makes a software dependent on the DB). The teacher told us the best way to validate data is to define constraints on columns and pass the cryptic message Oracle will give you back to the user! Wow! Then we are going to learn how to embed SQL queries in C++ using some legacy library I have never heard of, in which you need malloc and cursors to get multiple values. JDBC, ODBC, ADO, PHP/Oracle someone? Maybe, the teacher never heard about these soo "new" technologies. I can only agree with you. I’ve once heard: “If you can’t do, teach!” The problem with what we learn in University is that its too theoric and sometime not so relevent. Why the hell do I know how the car frequency it takes to break a bridge? Oh yes, I am studying engineering. Whenever you ask any teacher why do we only learn theoric things, they answer: “Of course, studying Engineering is about learning a method to solve problems and apply it to your field of study.” Bullshit…let’s see what happen after school : I have a project that has to be done. Ok, what did I learn in school: C++, C++ and yes Linux libraries. I think the best way to do my web application would be to write a CGI plugin, heavily tied to my OS. I will then learn about modern languages such as PHP and say, wow this is crap, you got no pointers and look…it’s not strongly typed.

I just came out of a Database course. I think its the first course in University that is really applied. Applied to what? Oracle. So we are learning every detail of Oracle (Foreign Keys, Views, Triggers, Constraints, anything that makes a software dependent on the DB). The teacher told us the best way to validate data is to define constraints on columns and pass the cryptic message Oracle will give you back to the user! Wow! Then we are going to learn how to embed SQL queries in C++ using some legacy library I have never heard of, in which you need malloc and cursors to get multiple values. JDBC, ODBC, ADO, PHP/Oracle someone? Maybe, the teacher never heard about these soo “new” technologies.

]]> By: ilisu http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6194 ilisu Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:06:08 +0000 http://finotto.org/2006/02/17/uselessness-of-university/#comment-6194 weeeeell... true enough, i wish my course would have been a bit more supportive. i complain about it a lot. but if it wasn't for their influence, and their jabs to the stomach (like the one i had this week with my project's grade), i wouldn't have researched design as much as i have, or learned how to use image-making/editing programs. i could go on, but summing up, i've learnt so much in these two and a half years thanks to the little 'umph' uni has put into me. thanks for this, it's put things into a slightly different perspective. weeeeell…
true enough, i wish my course would have been a bit more supportive. i complain about it a lot.
but if it wasn’t for their influence, and their jabs to the stomach (like the one i had this week with my project’s grade), i wouldn’t have researched design as much as i have, or learned how to use image-making/editing programs. i could go on, but summing up, i’ve learnt so much in these two and a half years thanks to the little ‘umph’ uni has put into me.

thanks for this, it’s put things into a slightly different perspective.

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